Episode 2More Security Challenges than You Thought You’d Need to Handle (and User Expectations)
The wide range of devices in the world brings about more security challenges than ever before. With data spread across a multitude of platforms, you are now more vulnerable to threats and breaches. How can IT developers strike the right balance between protecting information and enabling a seamless mobile experience for their customers and employees? Insight’s Carlos Sotero and Matt Skaff discuss current trends, challenges and how to craft the right strategy.
Note: Complete audio transcript found after author info.
Episode 2 - More Security Challenges than You Thought You'd Need to Handle (and User Expectations)
Published October 3, 2016
Announcer: You're listening Technomics. Connecting you to insights on digital transformation and the marketplace, with your hosts: Robyn Itule and Jeremy Nelson. The hosts' opinions are their own. Enjoy the show!
Robyn Itule: Jeremy how do you know if you can trust someone.
Jeremy Nelson: That question alone really kind of makes me concerned about our relationship Robyn.
Robyn Itule: Do you feel nervous being around me right now? You're questioning my trustworthiness.
Jeremy Nelson: Its very leading in a scary way.
Robyn Itule: So, you know you can trust me.
Jeremy Nelson: Absolutely.
Robyn Itule: But we don't know about trusting a whole lot of other things in this world like the terms and conditions in any variety of applications for the agreement that I am truly not reading all the way through.
Jeremy Nelson:As someone who deals with contracts on a daily basis, I can agree to that. Those terms and conditions are daunting.
Robyn Itule: I mean can I just pause right here to say thank heaven for great procurement people and the excellent contract writers.
Jeremy Nelson:That's right. My life would be extremely miserable without that support team behind me.
Robyn Itule: So the other faction of people who get really concerned about this I think are our own IT administrators. Because we're agreeing to a wide variety of things that are coming onto devices, and therefore onto the network without their express consent. And we had a really good conversation with Matt Skaff and Carlos Sotero.
Jeremy Nelson:Oh Matt and Carlos, those guys are great.
Robyn Itule: They're their own show waiting to happen, they'll have a spin off here inside of a month.
Jeremy Nelson:They're the Mork and Mindy of our Happy Days.
Robyn Itule: Oh that's a Snapchat filter waiting to happen.
Jeremy Nelson:Patent pending.
Robyn Itule: They are a dynamic duo, that is for sure. And they helped talk me through somewhat of an existential crisis about whether or not I was becoming a danger to the enterprise by downloading Elmo Calls.
Jeremy Nelson: Elmo Calls, you're going to have to fill me in.
Robyn Itule: I'm going to have to fill you in on Elmo Calls? Its when Elmo actually calls you.
Jeremy Nelson: Oh that's terrifying. So I mean that's right up there with that initial question of how can you trust someone. Nothing like getting an unsolicited call from Elmo.
Robyn Itule: My score just dropped didn't it?
Jeremy Nelson: A little.
Robyn Itule: Listen, when you have a nearly two year old who cannot be calmed by anything else, Elmo calls you. Okay we did spend a lot of time discussing Elmo Calls though because its one of those many apps that you get on your phone, like for example a certain keyboard, any of the Kardashian emojis. What are you agreeing to with the Kardashians when you download that. Are they able to read the entirety of your test messages or emails where you are using Kim or Kourtney or Khloe's emojified personas?
Jeremy Nelson: I wonder what the analytics are on the back end of that keyboard agreement.
Robyn Itule: There are some.
Jeremy Nelson: There's got to be.
Robyn Itule: But if you read into it, it actually allows them to read what you are passing through, anything that comes across on that keyboard, there's a correlation to it.
Jeremy Nelson: Well and the funny thing about that is if you go back to some of the more recent announcements from Apple, when you look at the way that they're doing text messaging, they're very focused on emojis. They recognize that the up and coming generations are less and less dependent on written language and can communicate effectively through emojis. To your point, if you're collecting analytical data on the usage of messages and how its being constructed through an emoji pack, you're basically capturing an entire conversation.
Robyn Itule: Its the modern hieroglyphics and who I wonder will be the keeper of the millennial Rosetta Stone.
Jeremy Nelson: Its all in there, its intuitive, its very strange.
Robyn Itule: There are more corporate things that will definitely get discussed with Matt and Carlos like their philosophy on how you should date your MDM provider, not marry them. Along with other really wise nuggets from these two and a lot of fun in this conversation.
Jeremy Nelson: Well Matt's right up there, he's a fellow gamer like me so we share a lot in common. So I'm excited.
Robyn Itule: There is some discussion about XBOX names.
Jeremy Nelson: I'm not surprised.
Robyn Itule: So when we come back, Matt and Carlos will take us to an even more entertaining place than we've already gotten to. And there'll be some help in there too. I'm looking forward to it.
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Robyn Itule: Alright so lets bring Carlos Sotero and Matt Skaff, both IT directors of infrastructure at Insight into this conversation. We'll let them duke it out about which half of the infrastructure that they are directing is the better one. So Matt and Carlos, welcome to Technomics, thanks so much for joining me.
Carlos Sotero: Thank you for having us.
Matt Skaff: Thank you.
Robyn Itule: Alright so today we're talking about security and user expectations when it comes to workforce enablement. Alright so today we're talking about security and user expectations when it comes to workforce enablement. Tentatively we have discussed this episode as being, "Well hey, who's that on my network." More and more there are devices and applications and things like your Fitbit like mine that just buzzed.
Carlos Sotero: That's awesome, have you been getting steps in?
Robyn Itule: Uh no, not presently, I am firmly seated in front of my microphone.
Carlos Sotero: Awesome.
Matt Skaff: But you brought your own Fitbit, that's cool.
Robyn Itule: I did, its not connected to our network, just my phone.
Matt Skaff: Thankfully.
Robyn Itule: Which is protected by AirWatch.
Matt Skaff: That is correct. And that is part of my awesome responsibilities as Airwatch.
Robyn Itule: Oh awesome.
Carlos Sotero: Airwatch is always watching you.
Robyn Itule:I appreciate getting to engage with the new applications and the people who can help me navigate them.
Matt Skaff: One of the challenges that you just hit on is essentially, how do you manage all the devices coming in. Bring your own device is one of the challenges. How do you do it with data privacy understandings, segregation of information from a personal standpoint and then also corporate data as well. It's really not about purely security, it’s really about the data on the device. And what you see is most people today have a smartphone. So you see corporate owned devices less and less in the environment. Similar to what you would see for transportation, there was back in the day where everybody had a company car. But now as you're a digital worker, you're actually responsible for getting yourself to the digital highway, the Internet. So is it the company's responsibility to provide that for you, or your own? But how do you do that and make sure it’s done with data privacy? It’s a mobile device management platform. Our choice was Airwatch. There are many choices out there in the market. Our philosophy is you date your MDM provider, you don't marry them. So we'll evaluate that next year to determine if we have to take a different direction. It provides a segregation of information that's necessary and it’sl a decent platform. And there are other capabilities we could use it for, but we're not quite there as far as putting all the applications out there that a teammate would use, that's one of the things that we're looking at is looking at making it easier to consume those applications in one stop.
Robyn Itule:We should establish in this conversation that I am definitely the user whoanything outside of routine sort of stumps, hence my earlier commentary. But I think in general, the whole BYO movement can be sort of a sore muscle because everybody has to work so hard to make it happen. On the IT side, you guys are putting so many things into place to protect us from ourselves as employees. And then on our side, trying to figure out how to best utilize what's been provided. That's a conversation we had earlier around applications. How do you put the right library of apps into play so that you are increasing productivity and collaboration while you're still protecting the data and making sure that there is that division of personal and professional?
Carlos Sotero: Before we even go into that, you brought up an interesting comment when you said sore muscle. And I think some of it can be a headache sometimes on certain things right? Kind of a one box or five boxes of Tylenol kind of rating factor off of that. So it just depends on how you want to rate some of things.
Robyn Itule:Excedrin and IT migraine.
Carlos Sotero: Excedrin and IT migraine. Because it’s coming along and you've got a different perspective. And you've got different generations of different things in a different way. You might have more tenured folks that are more legacy that are going to have a harder time accepting a BYO. Or you have a different generation with less tenure coming out of school that are used to or more expecting of a BYO program. You brought out certain applications or challenges in different types of things and my view is you're seeing a balance or a hybrid where you're slowly going in that direction. It’s not just going to be a clean cut, but it’s definitely evolving that way over time. And that's going to cause issues because people are concerned about data, concerned about, "This is mine, is the company going to reimburse me for some of this. Or should the company reimburse me for some of this?" If it’s mine, can you tell them what to do with it? Can you deal with it through technology or do you deal with it through paper based policy? So your security organization is going to have a view, your developers, your end users, the user of technology is going to have a different view. And it’s going to be an interesting balance to find the in between to make sure everyone's happy right?
Robyn Itule:What an interesting thought, I hadn't considered that you have the developer, get it done, make it live, make it work perspective versus how do we handle this from a paper based policy perspective. How do those two engage in your world?
Carlos Sotero: So if you think about it, we've seen companies where you have your tenured companies and your new startups. Your new startups seem to be from what I've seen, veering more towards a paper based policy. Where you'll bring your own laptop, you'll bring your own device, but you're going to guarantee to me that you're going to stay up on your patches, you're going to stay up on your antivirus, you're going to make sure that you're taking the right steps and I'm trusting you to protect the company with that data, with everything else. Where legacy, the older companies are like, if you're going to bring that device in, I'm going to make sure that I have technical checks that your antivirus is updated. I'm going to push you that antivirus, I'm going to push you those patches versus trusting you that you've got it taken care of on your own. And I think that's where some of the challenges come in.
Matt Skaff: No I think that's essentially where we were with the deployment of a mobile device platform. We had to replace the incumbent because we can receive complaints that it wasn't working for certain team mates. The native IOS application email to work and it didn't work in the previous solution. Then it was used from a paper policy perspective to actually have a stipend. In order to have that stipend, you actually had to use the MDM platform. But then you've seen recently where that stipend's really been removed and it’s still required to use that MDM platform in order to protect the data for both the teammate and the corporation. And I think that's a balancing act you see evolve over time. The part in order to get to your other question is how do you get to those applications that make people more productive. You first have to get past the trust issue, When we first rolled out the MDM solution, everybody had a lot of trust issues and essentially that we were watching them seeing what they were up to, who they were calling, who they were texting.
Robyn Itule:You're just seeing photos of my kids, I'm not worried about it. Well I have to say I remember when we did make that transition in our own organization and I had some questions myself. When you read the actual policy, it’s very black and white. It’s a policy, its meant to be. But I was like wowzah, that's really like.
Matt Skaff: Well here's the funny thing and I don't know if Carlos has even noticed it or agree with it but yes, people scrutinize the policy. Something comes out from your own company that you work for that pays you and you're reading every word and you don't want to click okay.
Robyn Itule:Ask me if I've read the whole Apple agreement, is that where you're going?
Matt Skaff: You go to the Apple agreement or the app store and download a gizmo or the latest app.
Carlos Sotero: Pokemon Go.
Matt Skaff: Pokemon Go, you don't even read it. You're hitting okay because you want to go catch Pokemon or I want to do this. But your company says hey, we want to try and provide you email but they're scrutinizing it like they're going to take over something off your phone or device.
Robyn Itule: Well would I have to give real credit to your entire team and to our CIO Mike Guggemos is the communication that was very transparent about this. There is maybe a stereotype that Nick Burns [assumed], the company computer guy may be not the most effective communicators, I'm just saying not true here. Because the way that that was communicated on a one to one basis when people did come with questions or scenarios or PG-13 commentary about what may or may not have been available from their phone that probably told you more than you wanted to know, I think it was really addressed really well and that may be part of the other reason why the adoption did go over so well ultimately. My recollection is there was probably about a week to ten days of conversation where people were really trying to understand it.
Matt Skaff: I think a week to ten days is being generous. I think it was a week to ten months maybe.
Robyn Itule: Hey perception is reality. Here's my perception right now.
Carlos Sotero: It’s a good world to live in. I want to visit.
Robyn Itule: Fair warning, my reality also involves toddlers playing with my phone and the one thing that I'm constantly concerned about is my little guy who is 20 months old like hitting the code too many times and then like everything disappearing and never being recovered again because he's trying to get to Elmo Calls. So it’s really important that we have Elmo Calls otherwise we can't navigate through certain situations.
Matt Skaff: Okay, I don't think that's a current feature of most MDM platforms, but we will investigate that for you.
Robyn Itule: If you can create an enterprise version of this, I would be delighted.
Matt Skaff: I'm thinking of an Elmo Calls application here at Insight actually. I'm thinking how we can roll that out.
Robyn Itule: I love the ideas that this kind of stuff can spark. So we talked a lot about mobile smartphones really. But there's a lot of other things coming into the environment right now and I'm curious to hear what is interesting to you and what's a challenge for you in terms of things.
Matt Skaff: Well one of the trends that's interesting is bring your own access. So if you are a digital worker, should you receive payment for your internet connection or your cell phone plan? I think that's an interesting trend that you're seeing more and more companies expecting, just like your ability to get to the office from a car perspective, transportation. Basically expecting the worker to actually have that access and not receive compensation for it. I think there's some use cases where you have 24x7 type of responsibilities where its probably valid to actually have that paid for by the corporation. But that's an interesting trend. Also bring your own application, I think is interesting in that, do you bring your own email solution? I would be hesitant to go that direction. If you look at political issues aside, the segregation of email from even the Hillary Clinton issues from a Secretary of State standpoint, you're better off having that segregation of data specifically. I think that's important for both the company and the entity in addition to the individual as well.
Robyn Itule: There are a number of agencies and people who have dealt with that very same scenario. It seems like a lesson people just don't learn. And a lot of organizations I think also deal with kind of that trust thing as they think about moving to the cloud and how do they segregate when all of that email data as an example moves out there. How does that effect?
Matt Skaff: If it’s in the cloud it’s in a data center. I think a lot of the people that are looking at it from a security standpoint alone. Security is a moving target, you're never going to be secure enough. There's always going to be a new vulnerability a new way of attacking, so I don't know if you're necessarily going to look at it from a security standpoint. It’s really about the data, the ownership of the data being able to segregate the data. You have to start looking at some of the recent vulnerabilities in the health care space, that's a red flag. Having all that payment information and personal information in the same data base, that's a big mistake. You need to segregate the data logically. Don't make it so hard that you can't get to it. You obviously want to take care of it at that part as well.
Carlos Sotero: What I think you should be trying is the expectations of things right? So now with end users its, they should be able to get to anything and everything should work, anywhere, anytime, on any device.
Robyn Itule: That's not reasonable.
Carlos Sotero: Of course not, there's no differences like that. Microsoft and Apple play perfectly together.
Robyn Itule: As long as I can get to Elmo Calls everything's fine.
Carlos Sotero: But it is interesting because what you're competing with is at any point in time when you pick that up, whether you're sitting in Starbucks, whether you're sitting in an office, whether you're driving down the expressway, everything is supposed to work and work flawlessly.
Robyn Itule: But not the latter because nobody is doing that or they shouldn't be.
Carlos Sotero: Yeah you tell that to people when you're hearing audio problems and you hear wind whistling with their windows down or the air conditioning fan blowing.
Robyn Itule: Well there is something that, the expectations piece is really interesting to me because I think that that's the really tangible way that we can talk about IT being a revenue generator. When your work force is doing the work, and they can engage their customer, and they can access the files to help move a project along, those are really, really tangible ways in which we're able to say, your information technology, your intelligent technology infrastructure and services and design is having an impact at the bottom line. How do you articulate it when you guys are talking about?
Matt Skaff: I think you hit on it. Its ease of use right? So how do you manage the expectations from a security standpoint, make sure you're adhering to the paper policy. But then also providing ease of use. For example, two-factor authentication is great but it’s also kind of clunky right? Having to pull out your token and put that information in there. So we're working on things like direct access where it still meets the security requirements, but you're able to fire up your laptop and you're directly connected to the applications and have them at your fingertips. So those are some of the things we're looking at. Now that we've gotten past some of the challenges we had with stability in the environment which you really need in order to have credibility with the business functions, we're starting to look at those ease of use things. For example, the recent thing we did with like distribution groups. Having self-service distribution groups for email, just trying to make things easier.
Robyn Itule: And that worked too by the way. I'm going to give you guys kudos for that. Thank you.
Carlos Sotero: That one is me.
Robyn Itule: Carlos for the win.
Carlos Sotero:Yes and the ease of use is always interesting right? It always makes me think back to again, the expectations and the ease of use, I think back to one of the Matrix movies where the dude takes Neo down to the bottom of Zion. And he goes, "Hey, these machines are functioning all day. They keep me alive, I have no idea how they work, but I'm alive and this stuff works. That's kind of interesting now. Because as you pick something up it’s got to be easy, it’s got to work.
Robyn Itule: Well, it does just have to work and how often does the challenge in that become the old picnic principle. Problem in chair, not in computer. Where you've got essentially not just is it stable, but is it fool-proof. And I'm your use case for that. I said it way up front, I have never ever claimed on any of these podcasts to be any kind of IT genius or be able to do anything more than what seems logical to me. And I'm being highly influenced by Elmo at this point in my life. So take that all with a grain of salt there. In all seriousness though, how are we permitting the BYO trend to happen before we have solutions to address the concern? So we're defining stability, we're creating ease of use, all the while we've got these other things coming at you, the expectation from the workplace consumer is changing. How do you keep pace with all three areas?
Matt Skaff: I don't think really you can. I think you have to prioritize the most important things to the business and then attack them one at a time. You're not going to be able to everything all at once right? You're not going to be the bleeding edge and the cutting edge on everything and nor do you want to. Because the bleeding edge and cutting edge you get, the more issues and you're the finder of the problems that then companies can go back and resolve. So it’s a balance right? What's important to the business, what's going to give the most bang for the buck for the teammates to get the benefit out of. And then to increase their productivity, and then you focus on those. And you just keep knocking them out one at a time based on priority.
Robyn Itule: Is that how you tackle them?
Carlos Sotero: No.
Robyn Itule: What's your approach?
Carlos Sotero: I just deal with every unreasonable demand with a smile.
Robyn Itule: Your kind of a yes and kind of guy. That's one of my favorite sayings from Tina Fey and if Jeremy were with us during this conversation, he would jump in with 30 Rock quotes right now. But she always says, "Say yes and figure out the rest later."
Carlos Sotero:You hit on it. Our approach is really how do you get to the yes. Or yes maybe. You don't want to say a definitive no right? And that's where you have to look at the possibilities and go from there. There's always a technical solution if you have unlimited budget, unlimited resources. However, that is not the reality of most enterprise IT organizations or even SNB or mom-and-pop shops. You don't have unlimited resources in any aspect. So you have to prioritize to Matt's point and then figure out from that list of prioritaztions and risks. If you're looking at it from a corporate responsibility standpoint, there is an acceptable level of risk.
Robyn Itule: We're going to take a quick break, we'll come right back.
Robyn Itule:You know when you're like Jeremy and I and you work in technology, often times you see a news headline and you start thinking hmm, I wonder how many data centers are required to power that initiative.
Jeremy Nelson: All the time, it’s so funny. You see traditional headlines come through and my brain goes into what underneath that from an IT perspective.
Robyn Itule:Well because, let's be honest. We leave in a day and age where you don't have a lot of opportunity to really dive deep into some of the areas and some of the headlines that come across that are really, really important. And from a technology perspective, where technology is fueling so many of the things behind the breaking news, somebody's got to start telling those stories.
Jeremy Nelson: Absolutely, as intriguing and important as the headlines are, for us in the technology space, the solutions that power those decisions is just as important.
Robyn Itule:So that's what we did, we produced a digital magazine, called Technically. Because we found that technically, there is so much more to discuss when you're talking about the things that really matter and impact our daily lives. So if you want to take a deeper dive on the headlines from a technology perspective, I really encourage you to subscribe to Technically. We push an issue once a quarter and its always going to be relevant and well researched. You too can subscribe today at www.technicallymagaine.com.
Robyn Itule: So as you look at where we are right now, if you look ahead one to two years, what would be something that you really want to enable for the teammates that you think is very possible?
Matt Skaff: That's a good question. There are a couple different answers off of that right? Easier access to the applications and tools that they need to do their job. It goes back to working towards that anywhere, anytime, any kind of device that incorporates whatever hardware they want to choose to use. Getting close to that it works and its easy. I know I can open it up and push a button, and its solid, working towards that I think.
Carlos Sotero: Similar to look and feel every application and service you use from an IT perspective ideally.
Robyn Itule: I love that.
Carlos Sotero: Because that is a challenge. If you're doing order entry or if you're doing exchange and email, or if you're using Skype for business, having that same look and feel, I think is idea. But the challenge is, if you have a bunch of third party applications, how do you achieve that? Two to three year time horizon for that I think is probably unrealistic. But I think its a goal that most people should start going for. Or even the same partner right. All the Microsoft user interfaces being the same. Even though they've been put together from acquisitions. Those are one of the things that we deal with from a challenge perspective. But the expectation is for everybody to have the same user experience. And that could be somebody ordering something through SAP. Is that easy today? Should it be easier? Yes it should be.
Robyn Itule: I love that point and we bring this up in almost every single episode that we've done in Technomics so far. And that is how deeply brand is integrated into all of those solutions. Listeners will know that my team has the great privilege of being able to really shepard the brand. So hearing that there really is a focus on the technical side about how to accomplish that, even with third party vendors is something that is really important. Because we end up having those conversations and more and more people are saying, "Oh hey we should loop creative in and loop design and see what they can do here to find out the parameters we can work in are pretty limited at this point." But for me, if I put my IT hat on for a moment, I think that it helps adoption if we're able to brand it in the enterprise version and say, "We vetted this, we know this, it looks like this, it acts the way that we act as an organization, and I think that can help propel some of those objectives over time.
Matt Skaff: Correct and one of the things we can accomplish in the next two to three years is moving away from email as the main communication mechanism.
Robyn Itule: Oh please, please do that.
Matt Skaff: It’s a passive form of communication, it is not an active form. It’s not a conversation like we're having today.
Robyn Itule: Passive in so many ways.
Matt Skaff: So what we're investigating today is leveraging third party applications to create more of an active communication mechanism, like a cockpit for how you come into in the morning and depending on your type of work, and all the applications you'd have in that cockpit. To communicate on projects, whether that's metrics that you need to do your job and determine how you're performing, or your team's performing. That's one of the things that we actually have an active project to determine how we approach that internally, for the different types of work. Modern workplace is how Microsoft refers to it today. And that is definitely within the two to three year time horizon.
Carlos Sotero: And then to see it get good enough to where we're visiting and showing up to offices that we've frightened off the HR approved hugs from teammates. Because to me, I'd love to see the hug factor increase in our communication too. I'm a hugger, it’s just me.
Robyn Itule: I can totally appreciate that.
Matt Skaff: Hug your IT professional?
Carlos Sotero: Hug your IT professional.
Robyn Itule: That's a day right? If it’s not, we should totally make that a thing.
Carlos Sotero: Hey if you've got bring your dog to work day, if you've got.
Matt Skaff: Bring your own device.
Robyn Itule: This is gonna be a phenomenal video.
Carlos Sotero: Mother's Day, Father's Day, why not hug your IT professional day? I mean think about it. Look at what happened to some of the airline industries over the last couple days.
Robyn Itule: Delta needed hugs this week.
Carlos Sotero: They needed hugs.
Robyn Itule: Southwest needed a hug a few weeks ago.
Carlos Sotero: Right?
Matt Skaff: Yes.
Robyn Itule: Alright, Matt and Carlos, I really enjoyed our conversation.
Carlos Sotero: I always enjoy our conversations.
Robyn Itule: This was a fun, good learning experience for me. I learn so much when I get to talk to you. I learned that Matt was actually a finance guy at one point.
Matt Skaff: I was, that was actually my undergrad at one point.
Carlos Sotero: So was I.
Robyn Itule: Stop it, you were?
Carlos Sotero: Yeah, double major. MIS and finance.
Robyn Itule: Alright you might be a little bit smarter than me.
Carlos Sotero: That's why we love our finance department so much. We're deeply rooted in what they grew up in.
Robyn Itule: I love our finance department too, they keep me on track and they also care deeply about brand. They want consistency and I love then for that. Alright you guys, thank you so much. Learned a lot today about workforce enablement and some of the things you're thinking through as you build the infrastructure to help support our teammates be productive and happy and still have access to Elmo Calls come what may.
Carlos Sotero: Awesome, hug on and prosper.
Matt Skaff: Bye.
Carlos Sotero: Bye.
Matt Skaff: Miss you.
Carlos Sotero: Love you.
Robyn Itule: Thanks for listening to Technomics. If you want to find more episodes, you can download the podcasts from iTunes, Google, or your favorite podcast provider. And for more stories on intelligent technology visit www.insight.com.